Can we start a serious discussion about the direction this site is taking?
posted in Community by
yellowjester
Having looked at the list of open print jobs, I've found that they are ENTIRELY (I mean literally, without fail) jobs that are either way outside the limitations of most home printers (usually due to volume), or else wildly underpriced. Having run a few print time estimates, the majority of these jobs would pay about $1 for every hour spent printing. When you factor in the cost of filament, I'm not sure we'd even be breaking even.
Looking at the list now, I see a mess of duplicate orders. One of them, a large (~6" x 12" x 2" part listed for $32.87) is repeated 15 times.
I've sent Nathan an e-mail with my feedback and concerns, but the response I received didn't really address any of them, amounting to little more than "thanks for the feedback, it's a work in progress".
I think more discussion is needed, and needed immediately, because it seems like the site is quickly hemorrhaging both makers and customers.
8 years, 6 months ago
I just tried logging out and finding my own profile to see how difficult it was to contact makers directly. After finding the hidden drop-down menu and selecting the option to find a maker, I was able to find my profile page. However, this page is dominated by a banner that says "On demand 3D prints from Justin", with 2 buttons: one that says "upload", and one that says "ask a question". No matter which button I press, I'm prompted to upload a file.
First off, this is not just implying, but telling people flat out that they are ordering something from me. THIS IS NOT TRUE. I have not agreed to take on any project. As far as I know, I'm not even alerted if someone is trying to order from me.
To check the pricing, I tried uploading the .stl mentioned in my previous post (the one that pays $32.87), and was shocked to be given a price of $87. Apparently, MakeXYZ is adding a 165% fee! They used to add 15% (recently increased to 20%) to my invoices.
Everything about this stinks. Money is being taken without anyone on the supply side agreeing to undertake these jobs. MakeXYZ is offering a pittance to anyone who does accept one of these orders. Turnaround times are being promised to customers, with absolutely zero ability to enforce them. And perhaps worst of all, customers are being told that we (calling us out by name) have agreed to make these deadlines and prices.
It seems, without further question, that this is entirely unconscionable, but I'm beginning to wonder whether it's even legal.
http://www.makexyz.com/f/site-needs-to-be-fixed-1d5cd5cd9e983b258f74979446df1377
If you can actually find the pages that let you upload files to a printer the files won't. The automated system uploads them just fine but the printers pages don't (at least for me).
I agree on the price issue as well as I priced out two people who I've used before (one local and one in GA) using their price per cm^3 and the price for my 5 models was ($25.30 and $32.60 respectively) which before adding in any shipping was 2-3x's less than the automated system of $78.50. I did the automated system just because I needed my parts printed in order to get my home built 3D printer working but paying double - triple the costs is ridiculous on its own and having no way to actually use a specific printer (especially ones who have produced great quality prints) is just plain wrong..
Honestly, pricing any prints based on volume is ridiculous. Since prints mostly consist of empty space anyway, a "solid" cube model might have 10 times the volume as a hollow cube model with a pre-modeled latticework, but still print faster and use less material. Unless you're printing at 100% infill (and going above 10 - 20% is almost never necessary, especially for large objects), the volume of an object is almost completely meaningless.
Surface area is a much better determination of how long a print will take, and if any single value is used to determine pricing, it should be that.
On our profiles, we have to list a price based on volume, but I've made sure to add a disclaimer that any prices I give are based on estimated print time, which is determined by many factors.
Judging by what I've seen from the automated system, the higher price you're being charged is actually much more in line with what most prints would cost (though, being based on volume, they're still arbitrary). The much larger problem is that you're being charged $80, but makers are only being offered $30 to complete the job. MakeXYZ is apparently pocketing the rest, and as a result, makers aren't accepting these jobs.
And the site is doing a very good job of making it extremely difficult to contact us directly, so customers think they're ordering from a specific maker, but in reality you're just sending your order into a trash pile of jobs that aren't worth accepting.
Still they need to fix this site or it will all be for nothing. I would have preferred to have someone who would be doing the work quote the job then an automated system do it that only the website knows how its actually figuring the price (on some parts from 10% infill up to 50% infill didn't add any cost to the part while on other parts going from 10% to 15% added a dollar to the cost).
As far as the "other site" goes (and where I'd like this one to go) I'm not a big fan of the as-automatic-as-possible system they are shooting for either. Each machine and process has varying costs in terms of support structures etc. I really just want someone to advertise for me and let me handle everything else, including communication through streamlined email (not clunky site messages) and the transaction.
So now MakeXYZ is effectively using my name and pissing away the reputation I've spent the last few years establishing.
If they send you a message from your page, they still have the option to include files, and then the job is handled in the traditional fashion, but there's no indication that this is necessary. What people see is a button that tells them to upload a file, and they have every reason to believe it's going to a specific maker.
-- as I say, I am under the impression that is the case. It certainly would make no sense for me to advertise on the site, and then have the big red button on my store not post models to me.
I asked Nathan this in the past, I will see if I can find the email....
Whichever way you slice it, the current system is, at best, extremely shady, and at worst, outright fraudulent. And I don't expect Nathan, who is probably making large profits off of the ridiculous margins that customers are scammed into paying, and which desperate makers must be taking on the chin, to do anything to address any of this.
I asked Nathan about this, and he said the prints come my way from my store.
As an advertiser, that is the only thing that makes sense. Of course he would not have us advertise and then not let us have the orders.
As far as prequoting, all the sites do that. 3dhubs does that. And I recall setting up my charges when I set up my store.
I often get quotes that have to be renegotiated with the customer.
I am not arguing, I am just saying that I think that the customer made a mistake.
I do agree that business has dropped off dramatically in the last few monthes.
Ive tried cancelling my promotion subscription by email, and two weeks and three emails later still nothing. I am stuck getting $9 charges every week, I have reported them as fraudulent to my CC company and will be contacting Stripe directly to report this sham of a "promotional" service.
MakeXYZ is a sinking ship, I strongly suggest you report them to Stripe and move your business to 3Dhubs.
I just stumbled across this. I used to get same day replies from Nathan. I don't anymore. I think he is no longer involved or at least not on a daily basis. The company started In Austin, TX but seems to be located in Arizona now. I think he is still in Austin.
The jobs I see posted as available prints are ridiculously under-priced, way over size, or impossible to print from what I have seen. Order completion times are often impossible to achieve. The 20% markup is insane, I thought 15% was too high on larger jobs. It causes customers to walk away.
My volume of job requests is way, way down since they started the system of taking orders and just putting them out there for someone to pickup.
The other problem I have seen is that when someone places an inquiry specifically with you, MakeXYZ asks, do you want to sent it to 3 other nearby makers. It causes confusion and wasted time when you spend pre payment time on something, don't hear back, and then find out they went with someone else. It has gotten to where if I get a message that starts out with something like "John,..." instead of "Rich, ..." and it is a low revenue job, I will message them back saying something along the lines of, "It looks like you sent this to several people and I was not your first choice, if you still need help, let me know as I would be glad to look at it...."
Well, that's my vent. I will be interesting to see if anyone sees this and replies.
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